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What makes a villain?
As some of you will know I stopped my storytelling series a while ago, of course it wasn’t about Persona specifically, more about stories and RPGs in general. So, for the first of my returned storytelling threads I ask, what makes a villain? That is, in your eyes what makes a villain interesting to watch, to see in action, and of course ultimately, to see defeated. As I have expressed in a few of my other months old ones in my eyes what’s most important for a villain is for them to seem like another character. In my eyes, the best villains are those who, although you might disagree with their beliefs or their methods, you can’t really say are evil. F or example, let’s take King Gaius from Tales of Xillia. Gaius is the king of a highly traditional country which values strength and honor above all else. As king, he believes it’s his duty to endure the prosperity of his people and that there is a line of similarly righteous and just Kings who follow him. This leads him to taking actions such as attempting to take an enemy’s super weapon so his own kingdom has it to defend themselves, and brings him in conflict with our protagonists on multiple occasions, first of which being the destruction of the previously mentioned plot point. As always, I want to hear your opinions, what makes a bad guy good at what they do?
I like it when aren't flat out listed as a villain or 'bad guy'. All you need from an antagonist is that they're against the protagonist. If your protagonist is a bank robber, then the antagonist is a cop, who is usually the 'good guy'. And that's the most basic example, but still shows a lot more potential for what to do. Long story short, a good villain is their own person, and not just 'bad'. So long as you start there, chances are you'll come up with a good one.
I think I have a type, because some of my favs are Hades from Kid Icarus, Ardyn izunia from FFxV, Kokichi Oma from Danganronpa V3 (I don't know if he counts) , I would count Hazama, and witn some others I would call it kinda the trolling asshole group. (Maybe Adachi, Akechi, and Kefka too) Mostly that I like villians who are cocky, makes jokes, troll a lot and make things more intersting. They make stories more intersting to me. Or the total innocents who become Villians in the end. I want interesting twists in my life.
Well, up until recently I've done the majority of villian characters at least as far as RP is concerned. Early on I stuck with the generic villian format which to be quite honest was somewhat boring. Though from my experiences I can also find value within a villian who simply seeks destruction just for the novelty of them I suppose. The villains I suppose I find the most enjoyment in playing though are either ones who know what they're doing is wrong but don't believe being wrong is, well, wrong or the villains who aren't really evil. I also am of the belief that a villIan is at their best when they either are a personal villian to others or parallel the protagonist in some way.
I hate villains that showed no signs of being the villain, but is magically is now. I LOVE villains that show signs of being even eviler than the villain you are fighting at the moment. Kefka is an example of that.
I don't think there are too many ways to do a villian wrong as long as you give them an actual reason to be a villian and have them act as an actual character rather than a villian just for the sake of being a villian.
the worst kinds of villains are the ones who touch my beer
Honestly I went on a rant a while back, but for me the best villains are a few things. 1. They are an extreme. No villain should ever be the middle of something, as then they lack the conviction to continue. Example Joker and Carnage. Both great villains and both willing to go to any end to accomplish their goals. 2. They have to be smart. Or random enough not to be predicted. I see this in a lot of games, but the best villains are three steps ahead of the hero, whether through planning or the hero not knowing what they'll do next. 3. This one usually goes without saying, but their are some villains who don't do this. They have to enjoy what their doing. For this lets go to everyone's favorite psychopath, Handsome Jack. All throughout the game you get called by him, and those calls are some of the best parts about the game. Since he's having fun being evil, you'll be having fun listening, watching and eventually stopping him. There are a few exceptions to this rule, specifically blackmail or mind control. But if it's a case of the villain sees the need to do it but doesn't want to of his own free will, then he isn't as engaging. Now there might be a rule here that some people might agree is missing, that being that the villain needs to see what they are doing is right, but while that creates interesting and sympathetic characters, I find it also lowers their commitment to their goal most of the time. Not necessarily bad, but I want to love to hate my villains most times, and in my opinion that's the best type of villain.
Alright, I would say villains make up the most popular characters in fiction. What makes us like villains so much? Well, lots of things. Some make us think "maybe he isn't so bad after all", some are fun and mess with the other characters, some are just evil for the sake of it and yet we still like them. Bottom line here is there's no clear cut way to write a villain. If I had to say I'd say as long as they provide a strong foil for the protagonist, and are just fun to watch, read, etc. then everything else is up to the writer.
Leave it to one of the best villains to write a good description of villians
Honestly I do prefer villains like Adachi and Akechi over villains like Nyarlathotep. Sure, For the Evulz has its place in cartoons and stuff, but I think good villains need deeper motivations and deeper madness than just "I'm evil, I was written evil, thus I am evil." Heck, I think Akechi makes a better villain in P5 than Shido. Because Akechi has motivations and reasons and you can see that he's not just some mustache-twirling psycho. Shido... he's just doing this because he can.
I disagree. A story and subsequently it's villain can still be enjoyable even if the villain themself is shallow. Hell, Nyarly is a great example. He's not some super deep and complex villain at all, but the story of the P2 duology is well loved by it's players. Now, why is that? I think it's quite simple. A villain isn't the end all be all of a story. A good villain, just as any other part of a story is just that. A small piece of a much larger picture. It's like having a really shitty cake and putting good frosting on it. Sure that frosting may be nice, but the cake itself tastes like Hibiki plays BlazBlue. tl;dr: A good villain isn't integral to making a good story, and even one-dimensional baddies can still be enjoyable given the right circumstances.
That's the only way a shallow villain can work; if they're not that big of a part, or essentially just a stepping stone in the protagonist's journey. I guess you could use Kaneshiro for this example in P5. Not very depthful or interesting, but he's really just a stepping stone in the narrative and still works. So long as they serve a point in the narrative, you can have flat characters, just don't make them the focus.
Your mom, lol
Leaving all the Discord Servers I know you from is pretty fuckin' villainous, Gamma.
Yes, I am an evil person don’t worry, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet