No.

@Hibiki yes.

If they bring Akechi back then I will personally pay for the chemotherapy ATLUS so desperately needs.

He's extremely popular, and moreover: he died off-screen. That's huge right there.

This leads me to believe that Atlus will more than likely retcon his death as him having escaped somehow so that they can include him in future entries.

They pulled a giant spacetime wedgie to make PQ work just so that P3MC and Shinji, who are both inarguably dead as doornails, could actively participate in one more spinoff.

With that in mind, it wouldn't be hard for them to come up with a bullshit reason why he didn't Actually die in Shido's Palace. Hell, they could even spin it into its own side-story since they'd also need to explain why he never showed up for the final battle.

@Hibiki you told the truth, huh ?
but i had to do this because this is a "plot" you know








and i like it

akechi and the circumstances surrounding him were pretty much designed to sell a rerelease!!

Yes

@IamThou lanza-chan
use your head about discussion threads , please

@pure-anon
Pretty much this. I could easily see a "The Answer"-esque separate story in a hypothetical "Persona 5 Crimson" rerelease that's all about how Akechi didn't really die and whatever he was doing while the Phantom Thieves were off kicking Yaldabaoth's ass and during the game's epilogue.

If they do it I'm gonna be really pissed off cuz he's a terrible shit and I hate him and let's be real, if they revive him or retcon his death

They're probably gonna try and justify is actions

@Yukayo
I am not Lavenza.



Knowing Atlus wants fanservice

YES

But I don't like him.

@IamThou why everyone likes fanservice more than plot :-;

I don't really get his popularity like he's not even that great. For me his entire character can just be summarized as "I-I don't like those Phantom Thieves baka!", "Yay I'm the most useless Phantom Thief now" and "Haha, Daddy issues".

@Yukayo

I 'unno.

Nah, Persona 5 itself already establishes that while his motives are sympathetic, his actions themselves were not justified. He was a vulnerable child who was abused and manipulated into becoming a murderer, but that doesn't change the fact that murders still happened.

I can see them going an "Adachi in Ultimax" route and giving him further characterization that serves to flesh out his backstory further (a lot of which got lost in literal translation with the game's localization) and functions as a redemption arc of sorts.

But then again I also think Adachi is one of the worst characters in the franchise from a writing standpoint so [shrugs]

@Hibiki

His skills are bless, curse, and almighty.


The ones protag already has.

@Hibiki you may be right , but if you didn't finish playing it , that cutscence when he was used all of the entire time by shido as his toy
it made me like "okay , now i think he is not bad at all"

i don't buy that whole "lost in translation" thing with akechi!! that post that got popular was written with a huge bias and glossed over tons of stuff!!

@pure-anon: They were referring to the Adachi thing with the lost in translation thing

@Hibiki i agree about that
even adachi's development was worse than akechi had

@hibiki i blame the alcohol, then!!

I've literally beaten the game three times so...

@pure-anon: In your defense Akechi and Adachi to have kinda similar names and are both basically the physical human embodiment of trash bags.

Was there a post that tried to justify Akechi anon?

@Hibiki you mean the phansite in the game ?

Yeah, it's totally fair if you don't like him because he's a villain! It just exasperates me when I see how much his actual motives and actions themselves are misinterpreted or deliberately misconstrued.

Akechi serves as the game's textbook example of what happens when a youth is abused by adults and manipulated by those with power over them (like the Phantom Thieves) but doesn't find an avenue of escape--they can become just as twisted as the people who ruined their lives. He's sympathetic because supernatural elements aside, vicious cycles like that happen all the time in real life, and escaping them is much easier said than done.

Also, explain how he made it out of the palace with the steel wall ib the way

yeah, there was a post that got popular on tubmlr about how there was a couple of mistranslations involving "psychotic breakdowns" and "mental shutdowns"!! though, in the end, it was basically a lot of words that didn't actually amount to saying much of anything!! the whole post was dripping with a huge pro-akechi bias(saying he didn't kill anyone because the subway incident didn't mention any deaths, ignoring that future events in the game specifically mention deaths in accidents that he caused) so it got gobbled up by the fandom because everyone's so goddamn eager to love akechi for some reason!!

Ah tumblr. I like tumblr on occasion but I'm not surprised they would do something like that since I used to be friends with someone who unironically called Adachi the perfect husbando and a pure man who did nothing wrong and must be protected and groans loudly.

That kinda ignores the fact that we LITERALLY see him shoot Shadow Okumura though how did they explain that away

"he only killed okumura because shido manipulated him into doing it"!!

they're all so ready and willing to look away from how much of a shitbag he is just because they wanna bone him!!

Huh, I wonder if it's the one I'm thinking of.

All I know is that "psychotic breakdowns" and "mental shutdowns" are weirdly similar terms when they're more like "berserk rampages" and "Apathy Syndrome". A lot of people seem to have been under the impression that they were one and the same due to how the game worded things.

There's also a lot of people that seem to think that Akechi killed people to get Shido's attention when that isn't true. He definitely killed people via killing their Shadows, but only did so because of Shido's manipulation of him.

Even the Phantom Thieves themselves recognize that the blame for his murders doesn't rest solely on his shoulders; Futaba and Haru directly accuse Shadow Shido of killing their respective parents even while knowing that it was Akechi who pulled the trigger.

this is precisely why i only let art on my tumblr
Click to load png image (size - 16 kb)

Shido definitely did not manipulate him. Akechi basically says he OFFERED to do it for him.

@Kala-Nemi i don't know anyone who thought they were the same thing!! that seems like total bullshit to me!! the game even makes a point to separate them!!

also!! akechi approached shido saying that he had special powers!! i probably hate akechi more than anyone else, but even i will admit that he's not a total moron!! there's no way he approached shido without creating his plan first, and there's no way he realized the potential of his powers without experimenting with them first!! there's no way he could have thought that he would have been useful to shido if he hadn't either caused a psychotic breakdown or a mental shutdown first!!

there isn't a single possibility that makes sense besides that!! akechi knew exactly what he was offering to shido and didn't give a single shit about if he was ruining lives to do it!!

Akechi offered his ability to make Shadows ("people's hearts") go berserk to Shido. Shido outlines this pretty clearly when he mentions that Akechi "made his troublesome opponents go psychotic".

Enacting mental shutdowns came later, presumably once Shido had Akechi under his thumb. That's where "lost in translation" comes in; the English version was a bit vague, but in the Japanese version, Shido words things more clearly as "I showed him how to properly start using his powers" in reference to killing.

None of this excuses him for his part in the murders, but it is pretty disingenuous for folks to assume that Akechi's just a kuh-rayzee murder boy that kills people for fun. (That's Adachi's schtick.)

I'm not saying Akechi killed people for fun, he was killing people for a purpose.

A dumb purpose. But he was fully aware of what he was doing.

Oh, definitely. He was manipulated, but it's not as though he was mind-controlled.

That's why I want to see more of him, honestly. He's a huge ball of fucked-uppedness and I'm interested to see how someone like that, who did a shitton of bad things, clearly has regrets, but can never properly atone for them would handle the aftermath.

Honestly I wish that he hadn't died in the story, because I think it was a bit of a cop-out to just remove him altogether. The Phantom Thieves all had a lot of mixed feelings about him; I wanted to see the fallout of what would happen to a character like that!

I like Akechi.
I don't think he's perfect, i don't think he's innocent, but i think he's redeemable.
His motivations were just, but his actions were not. Murder is not okay.
He realized this by the end, but didn't have a chance to fully atone.
Anyway,
I think the could retcon Akechi in the same way they brought back Morgana. Use cognition as the excuse.

it's not disingenuous at all!!

you have to add on so much head canon to assume that shido was manipulating him!! "i showed him how to properly use his powers" could have literally just been "hey, what happens if you kill their shadow?"!! it could have been "i want this person to shut down, so kill their shadow instead"!! it could have been "wouldn't it just be easier to kill their shadow?"!! it could have been a shadow attacking akechi, with him being forced to kill it out of self-preservation, and shido liking the end result!!

we never actually learn the true context behind it!! shoving in assumptions and head canons in and parading it around like truth is what is truly disingenuous!!

all we know is that akechi was still willing to commit murder, even after learning what killing a shadow does!! he causes several major traffic accidents, knowing that innocent people could die, too!! he even laughs as he kills okumura!! the narrative goes to great lengths to show that akechi has absolutely no problem using anyone and everyone as a stepping stone to his goal, even if it means killing them!!

I mean, Atlus did reserve a url called P5AG.
AG = Akechi Goro?

I also don't really agree with this whole manipulation thing. How would he even be able to "show him how to properly use his powers" in a "kill people" sense, when he himself does NOT have this Metaverse stuff. Wakaba's research? Wouldn't that set off red flags?
I think that line is honestly referring to like... how do I put this... his "showing him how to properly use his powers" might have been more in reference to showing how using his powers to kill could be beneficial? I'm sorry I really don't know how to properly word that thought.

Isn't saying "it could have been" coming up with a headcanon in and of itself?

In any case, yes, that's what I'm saying--I want to see more of Akechi because I want to get more context for his character. If it ends up being that no, he was definitely just psycho killer boy with no psychological dissonance or regrets to speak of, cool.

But, based on what the game told me, I'm going to hazard he's not a literal clone of Adachi and has a little more depth to him than that. (I guess I'm throwing Adachi under the bus here too, but Adachi's not really all that complex haha.)

I certainly agree he's better than Adachi but I don't think his character is all that deep honestly.

On the bright side I this pure-anon and I just accidentally formed the Akechi Did Literally Everything Wrong Team

Adachi was cool though.

He was a great villain, but Adachi ain't exactly the toughest nut to crack in terms of characterization. His haters hate him for exactly the same reasons that his fans love him and all.

I liked Adachi too, but he wasn't that complex.
He was bored, so he killed people, and he was a condescending asshole when confronted. Still a good character in my eyes, but no real motive but boredom

the whole point of "it could have been" was to point out how head canon-y that assumption is!! we're never given that context, so any assumption is just head canon!!

he entered his relationship with shido with the explicit mission of "help shido accomplish his goals, and then revealing myself as his son when i drive him to success"!! he knew exactly what he wanted to do!! when murder came up as an option, he did it!! he could have stopped his plan when he was told to kill someone!! but he chose to kill people so daddy would notice him!! and he chose to do it again!! and again!! that's in the narrative and is inarguable!!

@Hibiki hate akechi high five!!

I don't hate Adachi cuz he's a simple and ridiculously evil villain. I hate him because it feels like he wasted my time. I got really invested in the murders and the plot of Persona 4 and by the time I reach the end it's like...
..."What, that's it? This is your motive?" I don't wanna scream BASTARD and beat the shit out of him. I wanna push him down and leave.

I kind of like Adachi because his motivations were so dickish?
I mean, there's characters like ' MY FAMILY ARE DEAD SO I HATE EVERYONE ' or stuff like that, but Adachi's just a complete, unapologetic shitlord.
It's refreshing.

adachi is a modern kefka!!

Yeah, that's precisely why Akechi is interesting to me--he was in so deep with his convoluted, ill-concieved revenge plot that he ended up being complicit in exactly the kind of thing he hated so much about Shido. He only cooked up his whole scheme because of his sheer contempt for Shido alone, but ended up betraying his own ideals and becoming more and more of a false person because of it.

He most certainly did everything wrong. But at the same time, his circumstances make it clear that he can't be made to shoulder every bit of the blame for his actions--he may have been his own person, but man can environment and the actions of those above you fuck you over good.

I just wanna see where a fuckup like that can go after he hits rock bottom--that is, his huge dramatic breakdown and boss fight in the game. Damn it Atlus, you just dump all this characterization on me and then cut it off there?

One thing about Persona 5 I wasn't happy with was how certain characters got put in the trash? Like Haru and Goro ( i swear if i hear one more person saying hifumi should have replaced goro i will snap my neck and jump into a flaming pool of gasoline )

Hifumi should have replaced Akechi.

Hifumi was nice and all, but her story was kind of plain in comparison to others, the PT team already had a strategist in Makoto, and the game had a hard enough time squeezing Haru in as a final party member. Her getting cut was all around a good thing.

Chuunibyou villain?? I like Akechi ( As a character, I don't support what he's done ) but god that sounds great

I'm not even a big fan of Hifumi, her Confidant abilities are nice but that's basically the only reason I talk to her.

I /really/ hope we get more from Haru in future spinoffs! I may be biased because she's one of my favorites, but I really love her character!

i think he shoulders enough blame for his actions that he's beyond any sort of forgiveness, personally!! but it's not like i'm saying shido doesn't shoulder blame, either!! they're both equally guilty, if you ask me!!

though, i do agree that the way he was handled was pretty bad!! it was super unsatisfying to get all of his characterization at once, and then to just have him just die!! on a personal level, i also really hate that it was a heroic death!! either way, it would have been way more satisfying for him to continue on and attempt to atone(and, preferably, suffer a lot in the process!!), or at least have the sacrifice scene occur later on!!

makoto got her tactician side(and code-name!!) from hifumi, actually!! hifumi was originally meant to be a phantom thief, but when she was cut, they collapsed her role and some of her personality traits onto makoto!!

Hifumi's skills are nice and all, but as a Confidant she just feels weirdly out of place. She's just an extracurricular school friend. Even worst girl Ohya is at least suitably shady for a Phantom Thief's close friend

Looks like you wanna fight I see

Haha honestly I would be so down with Akechi trying to atone and suffering a lot in the attempt.

I feel like that'd be a great compromise between his fans and his haters. His fans get angst fuel while his haters get to see him get kicked in the teeth

god!! please!! atlus!! give me a game about akechi being kicked in the teeth!!

sounds cool but choose your weapon Kala I'm gonna throw down

My account here is spearboy, do you even have to ask?

Just for the record though, Hifumi isn't worst girl. Worst girl is Kawakami.

[squints]

Hifumi feels like a weird outlier when it comes to being a Confidant, but at the end of the day she's not a bad character or anything.

I could go my entire life without ever having to see nor hear anything about creepy meido teacher though.

kawakami is great!! we're gonna fight!!

I was mostly about to fight cuz you said "even worst girl ohya" and no one calls ohya worst girl with me in the room and survives

Oh, I should have added a "supposed" there. Everyone seems to consider her worst girl by default and I like to joke about it but she's alright

Fine, I won't kill you. I would watch out for pure-anon though.

none of the girls are worst girl!! they're all great!! even if some of their confidant abilities aren't as good as the others!!

I'm totally down for a fight thread tho

I haven't written a good fight in ages

...i don't really rp...!! or write action...!! i mainly just write romance fluff...!! so i'd prefer an argument over a fight-fight...!!

Hehe it's cool. I'm joshing

The thing about Kawakami is that I've actually been in a teacher role, with students, before and so anything that fetishizes a teacher-student relationship is just a huge nopefest for me

I don't wanna imagine it and I don't wanna be aaaanywhere the fuck near it either

it's really only fetishized if you see it that way, if you ask me!! after the initial gag scene(which, to be honest, seems kind of inappropriate given the reality of the situation!!), the whole confidant is pretty much just a story about a desperate person forced into sex work!!

It's the insistence on the maid outfit and continuing to call you "master" well after she quits the job (and in private) that make me nope the fuck out more than anything

She's sympathetic outside of that, but I'm just... like... don't

Hell, I didn't like the Hermit social link in P3 either and that one was way tamer

yeah, i do agree that's pretty weird!! it just seemed like a weird justification to not rig her normal model to do those things, to me!!

Yeah, true--it would have required some extra effort to provide her with a different model during the housekeeping bits. Still I don't get the feeling it would have been a backbreaking amount of extra labor to do so...

In either case you can still date her which is, to me, just super weird and off-putting and I ain't want no part of it lol.

This is getting really offtopic but yeah

that's understandable!! i guess i just find it really easy to pretend romance options that make me uncomfortable don't exist(like ann's)!!

Haha yeah

At least Shiho literally says "I love you" to Ann so there's a very good lass to ship her off with that isn't the protag

Did someone hint at lesbians im back

I ain't even hinting, tbh I will accept no other romantic option for Ann

(well okay one of my friends ships her with Makoto and I'll accept that but she's always so motivated by Shiho!! It's so cute please)

yeah!! her whole confidant is about how she and shiho motivate each other!! it's super romantic!! and then shiho pseudo-dumps ann and that's the point the game decides to give you to romance her!! it feels so exploitative!!

we've gotten so offtopic im laughing

Yeah, I'm like argh, Ann please go be with your girl. I ain't got no business in here, we are Strictly Thief Buddies OK

that's the nature of conversation, i guess!!

Yeah haha. I mean I guess the question asked in the topic was already pretty thoroughly answered and not too many other people are awake, so *shrug emoji*

The rank 9 scene just felt so awkward, like... Ann why am I even here? Like I get Shiho has a hard time with stairs but couldn't I have just like, waited outside the door until yall were done with your conversation, I feel like a third wheel who somehow has a romance option

yeah!! ann is crying and akira's just like "hey girl, feel like a rebound?"!! it's so uncomfortable and weird!!

YEAH... a few of the romance options, Ann especially, feel like if you take them they tack on this bit of nasty characterization that doesn't really suit the MC. I wanna believe he's a good dude, I don't want to have him swoocing in on his girl teammates when they're having a hard time just so he can date them ):