Some ideas have been thrown around regarding what to do with the heavily-rushed story we have, from simply retconning to salvaging it. The reasons I bring the talk here are two-fold

1. Inclusiveness
Not everyone can see the conversation when it occurs somewhere else, either because they miss the link or it is gone too quickly. Thus the obvious solution to including everyone in solving the problem, is to bring it to the forum itself, where everyone can see it and have conversations

2. Slowing the conversation
Among certain American Indian tribes they had a custom, rather than trying to solve a problem as soon as possible in one meeting, whenever anyone would become upset they would simply call off the meeting until a later point. This allows people to focus more on making a good solution, as opposed to A solution. To this extent, I request that if any arguement. gets out of hand, someone deletes this thread and I can repost it at a later time, once everyone has calmed down.

We have no real time limit, in fact the longer this takes the closer it will be to when tags are implemented which will help divide between the two major sections of the site.

There were also minor issues for the mechanics of fights and such, but these are much less important for the site as a whole to agree with, and thus are not to be discussed here.

I think the part where things started to derail was when the site stop feeling like it was going down a sin right.

For example, in the Gluttony fight, there were many topics, clues, and hints, about Food or other Gluttonous sins.
It made it interesting, and the air of mystery was strong. It made the forum feel like it was slowly building up for a fight.

I didn't feel that for the other fights, really.
There was a lot of rushing, but there wasn't a lot of buildup for the fight itself.

So to fix the pacing, I think one thing you guys can do (behind the scenes), is to think about which sin you want to move along, and speed the next week and a half, or so, putting out posts, topics, or themes, that fit that sin, to try and build up the atmosphere of the next fight.

Make it subtle, but obvious enough so people can pick up on it.

This will help solve the pacing issue, but it will also help build up the RPs, giving people time to see what's going on, and help build the atmosphere.

*glint in the eye* You've activated my 5+ years of training for this exact moment. WoW Forum Powers, activate!

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So yeah, we were talking on Discord last night and your first two points came up repeatedly (the third one was kinda lumped in with the second for most people). It was actually surprising how many people came in and said that they had almost entirely quit RP because of how impossible it was to follow.

But yeah, we ALL basically agreed that the plot was moving too fast. Which is weird because if we all agreed why'd we let it get so bad.

TBH we're not sure exactly where we want to go with the sins in the future, but we do know that there'll be a break before Wrath actually shows up, and after Wrath there'll probably be a longer break while we let Mishima and Joker get the RP Overflow fix out.

As for more casual stuff, I actually had just heard from someone that apparently a lot of people told him they felt intimidated by joining our Sin stuff because they felt like they'd get overshadowed or ignored.

I don't really have an answer for making the big events more inviting, especially since we infamously had nearly 20 people try to go on the heist for Gluttony.

I think most of us agree that we need more smaller side events to fill in time between major arcs, so people stay interested. Obviously the Lux Palace was meant to be such a thing, but poor communication meant that Ira (Wrath) ended up showing up in the thread.

Yu's suggested bringing back people getting Personas in the future, though I won't say for sure if or when that'll happen. I know I'd like to see us do more stuff with Mementos, but our few attempts so far have been "eh" at best and a lot of the folks who do GMing don't know enough about how Mementos works to really sell it. But if someone does want to start a Mementos thing feel free any time, Tatsuya left a stolen bus down there ( :P ) for you to use.

Also I think the lack of any concrete "general RP hub" has hurt the casual/non-plot RP community a lot. Thanks Joker for reviving Leblanc, because we were sorely missing it. Though we do need to all keep in mind that threads like Leblanc should be used as an escape from the plot. A place for meeting people, setting up things, and general chaos. Not for things like revealing that your character is possessed by the next major villain.

As for people feeling upstaged... well I hope I'm not part of the problem, but I'm guessing that's something that the Wild Cards will need to figure out what to do about on their end. I know at one point we were talking about basically having everyone reset their levels so we aren't all slinging ma-dynes around while Tatsuya summons Lucifer to cast Armaggedon. Now that we have the beginnings of an actual battle system, we can do stuff like character progression better.

Yeah the whole issue with the sins and everyone being so... strong is why I brought up the idea of having a separate plot, with like three or so people act as GMs to mastermind everything, and make the characters start at like a lower level with lower stat points and weaker skills and set it up like a DnD game or something almost. The Palace RPs are also so hectic it's why I try to be somewhat normal? Variety is the spice of... something.

I know personally I think Palaces should have a user cap, and we did kinda enforce that with Gluttony's heist.

Only thing is when there's 20+ people around who want to do RP and only one Palace running that means that 10+ people are gonna feel left out. And some of them decide to crash the heist to feel like they're doing something.

In the end the answer is probably to get more side stuff going with the TV world and/or Mementos, and of course the non-combat stuff as well.

Actually at one point last night someone brought up the idea of doing a Shujin thread for the folks that play students.

I'm definitely all for a school thread, a major part of the series is the whole "teenage life" segments and that's something we've mostly been missing so far. I guess its just no one really had ideas for what to do on it.

I would be fine with a school thread or something. I mean I do say I play more of a "confidant" or whatever you wanna call what I'm doing snrk.
So joining heists feels out of place. I know a lot of people might feel left out if there's a person limit but we'd need to decide on this stuff to keep things from getting out of hand
Plus I like the idea of Mementos, and TV worlds etc
If we have multiple options like that this could potentially open room for multiple factions or mini-groups within larger ones, so we get like groups exploring a Palace around the same time someone is exploring Mementos, and if they're cooperating, meet up later to share info or treasure

Kawakami Tried doing a school setting once and it was pretty fun...

We tried to do something like that with Lux, Hibiki. But due to our tendency to overrush things ended up doing the whole TV World bit in one night rather than on a future day like we originally planned.

In Dungeons and Dragons, the DM keeps track of the XP gained after each fight, and tells the players to they can act accordingly. If we can have a system in place where leveling up gets you better skills, then we could easily use the DnD system. However, that relies on people being honest and not cheating more XP, starting as gods, or just half-assing and assuming when they're suppose to level up.

Basically it requires trust then...

That's something required for any group to work together, without trust to be reasonable this whole RP thing would fall apart anyways.

Also, the GMs should do more. It's understandable that they don't want to keep track of all the numbers in a fight, but I feel it's a bit lazy that they don't. At least have a RNG on the side that tells you how much damage is done to the player, let each player know how much damage they take instead of just letting the players assume. I for one really like to keep track of numbers, so I have a notebook open with my HP and SP, and I calculate how much SP and stuff I use, but I hate that the GM will just be like "Cerberus used Vorpal Blade" and I just have to guess how much damage that is. This is kinda off the topic at hand, but I just wanted to say it none the less.

I was actually going to suggest something like this. If players can't be trusted to be honest then the GM could have like online dice rollers and formulas open to figure out numbers and tell players how much damage something does so they know when something is effective

As you noted at the end we're trying not to discuss fight mechanics, more general stuff here. But yes, it'll work a bit more smoothly with a real system, instead of the skeleton of one Liam used. It works, we'd simply prefer to do more. Klib is actually working on a system like that, when he gets on I hope he'll bring it up

Something I talked about with some people on the discord was how some peoples RP actions conflicted with others. Then it becomes kindda a strong arm situation as to what actually happens. All combat encounters, big or small require a GM. But as for a system, my thought was we all submit proposed actions and consequences. The GM rolls on his end and responds with what actually happens. This is very much, to my knowledge, the idea of the Update system Liam has. But we need stats. We need to hammer that out.

I know a lot of the GMs we have dislike the idea of doing hidden rolls and stuff, which is why we don't really do rolling right now.

Also keeping track of EXP would require GMs to be in some sort of agreement on how much EXP to hand out. Since it'd likely be tracked on character sheets.

the GMs will definitely need to use something like Discord to throw ideas off each other and coordinate the events. Uncoordination is part of what got us into this mess to begin with

I can get not wanting to do hidden rolls, but it's the best solution I can think of to the problem of not having anything and just kind of assuming or guessing

And we should do our best to make the system as CLOSE to Persona 5 as humanly possible.

If you have problems with hidden rolls, then leave and quit video games forever. Hidden rolls is definitely a good idea if the GMs wanna put the effort in.

I've heard the opposite from a lot of people, that they'd rather it be closer to D

closer to D

well RTS games and puzzle games typically don't have hidden rolls, but pretty much anything else (like Persona) does, its the easiest way to add some inconsistency

.... D AND D with smaller numbers. But we're here to discuss plot.

idk if i can really help GM but I will be happy to help assist in creating formulas to help make it feel more like a game rather than doing things willy nilly
whether it be something like figuring out basic damage ranges for certain spells and modifiers for spell boots or resistances or something

also excuse me DnD with smaller numbers? I don't know what kinda DnD matches you've been playing but i would think people would want it to be DnD with larger numbers cuz jeez

lets wait for Klib to come online and work on the actual system with him, he was already working on making an RPG like this, so he almost certainly has several things to say

I agree with Gamma. Klib is quite knowledgeable and one step ahead on this.

Yeah I was thinking of discussing my ideas with him because I do believe he has GURPS? I would like to sit down with him if so and discuss a basic system and how it can be improved if we go through with this

I like to pretend.
I dont like to deal with drama caused by internal conflict of the pretenders.

alright, this one's just a bump for people in different timezones, who are usually on around now.

Few thoughts to maybe get things started.

1. What kinds of threads would people like to see? I feel like today, besides Leblanc, we all just kinda stared at each other unsure of what kinds of threads ot make.

2. Once the subforum/filter/whatever is done we should get a sticky post so people no longer need to do "Hey!" posts to get a rundown of the lore. Give people an overview of the Nexus, a link to the timeline, maybe some RP-specific rules.

3. Maybe we should do like training threads for people that might want to GM? Or for people that want to learn how to combat.

If people join in late, there should be a way for people to just give concise updates, or have recap posts every now and then. That way, people won't have to read through 200+ posts.

UPdates overall or for a single thread?

Because overall I think that's the purpose of the timeine that Labrys has been working on.

It is I, myself! I'm actually working on the system right now, because this whole situation gave me time to take a time out and focus on the project I planned on working on.

Ugh maybe I shouldn't have brought up "We're actually fighting the 7 sins like the game!" after the battle with Lust...

I felt like that kinda intensified the RP here

For 1, I liked the cafe's and the Trip threads, places to hang out and have fun.

I totally Agree with Option 2 That's necessary Honestly I don't know about tatsuya but I know I got kinda annoyed at having to explain the Nexus to everyone who joined, ESPECIALLY the ones who didn't know my examples,

Not against anyone, It just got a little annoying posting the same explanation over and over.

As for 3 I think at the very least a sticky post explaining combat is necessary,

@IamThou I know how you feel, I'm the one that invented/Popularized the Character Sheets, AND the Nexus Location lore.

(though anyone is free to prove me wrong on that)

It's a fun idea though. The problem lies in the fact that everyone seemed to have their own agenda. But having a group behind the scenes bouncing ideas off of each other to build up tension towards the next event would be a good fix for this. And by no means do I want people to think that they can't help out, I'd want this to be as open as possible for everyone, because I loved all the different ideas and events that have popped up during this "dry run"!

I like being Mr exposition to an extent. But not all the damn time. Also yes we need better stable stuff to explain.

If you need, I can edit the second post to have any text/summaries you would like.

I dunno, @IamThou. If not for that we probably would have petered out on lore entirely.

At the very least without that I probably wouldn't have stuck around this long or RPed.

The nonsense is nice, but what turned the nonsense into something special was when we decided to make it more than just "random loli became a thot."

Taking a break from the timeline rn due to a forced vacation, but that is indeed its purpose @Migrant. Though I would very much appreciate everyone's help. Like people involved in the threads making like bulleted lists of major bits in order. Because right now, I have to hunt down the threads, and read them all in their entirety to make sure I understand the whole story. I can't keep up with that much. Especially with how fast everything was moving and the threads getting buried, so I'd have to hunt them down too.

What donyou mean second post @HifumiTogo?

@Migrant
Huh. Was the battle with Thotiah the first actual battle on the forums?

As a Mod they can edit any post that isn't the first. Thus they could pin a thread and she can update the second post as major events are resolved

Moderators can not edit the first post of a thread, so if you would like to use at least the second post as the main post, I can update it whenever you ask.

Probably the Perma Thread under the rules

Oh, I just don't know what im talking about

ignore me

Okay. Hmmm. That would be nice kindda. But also defeat the purpose of my work on a vague way.

@imtherealklib

For the same level of build up that was seen for gluttony I feel that you guys need to make it clear which sin is being done during the beginning of the week. That's basically what happened with gluttony and I lot of people created the build up through just chatting about what gluttony means. With a clear objective I and a few other people were also able to set up threads building up to the event itself.

The event needs to be clear from the start in order to get an audience.

Also I think Klib has a good point. When -V- first appeared and then we solved the riddles and Narcissus showed up, I think most of us involved had an "Oh shit it's actually real" moment.

At least I know I did.

I thought "this is going to be our next multi-day arc as we try to figure out what Vanity's plan is, and put a stop to it, just like in a real Persona game."

Then the next day it was over. That fast. Sooner than we expeted since most of us slept through it.

And then Gluttony went off the rails because we had so many different groups with different ideas of what Gluttony SHOULD be and no communication on who was doing what that we basically turned the first food-related incident into Gluttony and raided his Palace next day.

Simply put, we never had the coordination to develop something truly Persona-esque. Heck, the Sins got to a point during Gluttony where THEY felt like the side story and the real overall plot was about Nyarlathotep.

The whole mess with Wrath was not really clear at all to begin with preventing a slow build up.

Well, at least on the wiki there are links to articles that go into more detail I believe so a summary page might not defeat the purpose of the wiki timeline entirely

Well behind the curtain Wrath was intended all along to build slowly. And in fact him showing up in the Lux Palace was entirely a spur of the moment decision by the person puppet mastering Ira.

But we got trained with Narcissus and Gluttony that we had to go after the Sin like next day, and that led to a massive lore train wreck that's why this thread exists.

Thats a mother thing. I do believe we need to expand the individual articles. A lot of them are as basic as my paragraphs. Maybe a play by play?

I'd have to agree Migrant. The -V- event was super exciting to see! And again, I'd have to agree Mishimans, which is why having a background group that can decide what's coming next, would be mondo helpful!

So Basically we need more Organization between Lore Masters?

More organization would be super handy with the Sins.

Since Envy actually procced early as Gamma and Mishimans can attest to, entirely because nobody was really sure after the train wreck started with Lux's Palace exactly what to do next.

yeah, I kinda panicked there....
Was doing so well before then too... Kinda feel bad about it now

So basically a GMs Guild...

*medieval fanfare intensifies*